Tuesday , 23 July 2019

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Pope Francis

Belief Matters … or Not? Trans response to Pope

Last week Pope Francis described gender theory and teaching about transgender people as a threat ...

3 comments

  1. So, religion is a lifestyle choice! This proves it.

  2. I'm sorry but this article is inaccurate, outdated and distorted. Perhaps you will allow me to correct some of the inaccuracies – but I would suggest reading my earlier article on Kaleidoscot – you can see it on the 'most popular' section. On terms of this particular article I would just make the following points:

    1) We do not define another church purely by what it believes about gay ministers. So the whole basis of Stuart Ryan's comments and this article is flawed.

    2) Homophobes are not welcome in the Free Church – unless they repent!

    3) The Free Church argues that everyone, including (especially) Free Church ministers are sinful.

    4) More than 13 ministers have left the C of S (not just two HIghland Revs). In fact I have four ex C of S ministers in my own congregation alone.

    I have no problem with people disagreeing with our stance. I do have a problem with people making up our stance in their own heads, posting it as fact and then disagreeing with it. I don't blame Kaleidoscot for this – its sad that the misinformation they have seems to have come from the church…..

    Wishing you all a very Happy Christmas!

    David

  3. Interesting – and particularly interesting to read David Robertson's response.

    In response, it does seem that one church is seeking to define another – I'm guessing the quote attricuted to the Free Church is correct? If so, the person making the statement is guilty of oversimplifying the position – of misunderstanding that there are mutiple ways in which the Bible can be interpreted, of failing to see that those who take a different view are not simply discarding the Bible as "a relic", and of judging the Kirk as divided. I see where Mr Ryan is coming from, although his choice of words might not be ideal, because quite obviously the Free Church is asking "what holds the church together?" while referring to the recent gay ordination vote. The inference is obvious: the Kirk is in trouble and it's all because of the gay minister issue and some of it's members and leaders "trampling over" Biblical teaching. Which sounds a bit like defining another church in accordance with perceived beliefs, frankly.

    I am pleased to see that Mr Robertson doesn't want any homophobes in the Free Church, but I'd like to ask him what he plans to do about it. Also, how does he define homophobia?

    Of course, I realise we're all sinful according to Free Church (and other Christian) teaching. I wonder, though – does Mr Robertson believe that homosexual orientation is sinful in and of itself? I think that's the point Mr Ryan is making (although I don't know what his orientation is as he doesn't tell us).

    Finally – however many ministers have left the Kirk (I think it's less than 20) the fact is it's still a tiny minority, and this is since 2009! The STV article the Free Church quote was taken from seems to suggest only two ministers have left the Kirk to join the Free Church, so perhaps Mr Robertson should take up the issue with them. I suspect that most of the departed ministers haven't simply switched to the Free Church. In the interests of exactness, could Mr Robertson say precisely how many ministers have made the move, given he demands such rigorous factual accuracy?

    In regards the Free Church stance, it is sadly too often simplified, stereotyped and ridiculed – but this should not be surprising, especially when it continues to make judgmental and dogmatic statements making distinctions between "those who believe the Bible is basically an ancient relic and are happy to trample over its teaching, and those who believe it is the infallible word of God". This is unfortunate, because having read David Robertson's other piece he comes across much better than the Free Church often portrays itself.

    It seems such a shame that one church is seeking to "pick up the pieces" from another denomination's current situation, especially at this time of year, and in that respect at least I agree with Mr Ryan.

    I too wish everyone on here a happy and peaceful Christmas. Best wishes from a Scot in exile in England (a member of the Metropolitan Church).

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